Curse

Bobby2 · May 14, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by me, in some other thread

efficiency =/= enjoyment (necessarily

)

Agreed!
/12chars

Unreal Havoc · May 14, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

[skill]twisting fangs[/skill]: a good skill both in PvE and PvP. If it's just for the DW I'd rather have [skill]impale[/skill] or get funky with [skill]finish him[/skill] since repeated Twisting isn't nice for your blue bar (and not hella useful either).

EDIT: outninja'd by Unreal

Indeed!

I'd rather take Golden Fang Strike myself to get Deep Wound on my target quicker and for much more efficient spamming of Deep Wound if the target dies quicker than you manage to pull off your chain (which really just depends on where you are using the build).

Personally though in lower level areas I just run this:

[build prof=A/any name="Foxs Promise" dag=12+1 cri=12+1+1][Foxs Promise][Critical Agility][Critical Eye][Unsuspecting Strike][Golden Fang Strike][Death Blossom][Assassins Remedy][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Good discussion by the way, nice to see some people here can actually hold a civil debate.

Bobby2 · May 14, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Got ya. 2 points:
1: Gotta love the stance ender (yes, that's utility in my book)
2: NO Deep Wound application results in your target living longer. Then: is this a bad thing when it means you can get a couple more Blossoms in?

Unreal Havoc · May 14, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Got ya. 2 points:
1: Gotta love the stance ender (yes, that's utility in my book)

Definitely, but only in areas that you need it, otherwise its a waste of utility that could be used for something else.

Quote:

2: NO Deep Wound application results in your target living longer. Then: is this a bad thing when it means you can get a couple more Blossoms in?

Depends on the purpose of the build, if you want to stack loads of AoE on multiple targets it could be preferable to actually not pack Deep Wound. It really does depend on your team setup aswell. You could (just as an example) just use the Solo Farmer variant and tank a mob spamming MS/DB (as you do to solo farm only with a Monk to cover your enchants and protect you) while the rest of your party deals massive AoE from Nukers and Splinter Weapon cast on you etc.

The possibilities are endless and its stuff like this that really shows the strength of MS/DB spamming as it can be used in so many ways due to its versatility.

petrorabbit · May 14, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Good discussion by the way, nice to see some people here can actually hold a civil debate.

troll troll flame flame!!!

J/k,

Indeed, not everyone is still an adolescent.

With all this new info brought on by the shattersin discussion, i think we need a build update from the earlier part of this thread probably including GFS and WS.

And Bobby, since you started this thread, i think you should keep the build updated on the first page keeping the histories so the people reading this can see how the build evolved from the first page.

Super Igor · May 14, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

But here's the main point. MS/DB maintains Save Yourselves spamming AoE double striking and doing a load of damage to go on top of it. There's little point in taking an Assassin that doesn't kill stuff. Shattering Assault does not make things explode like MS/DB does, it's a utility build to setup targets for other classes to take care of the targets stripped defenses. Unless you really NEED enchantment removal, that your support proffessions can't take care of, there really is little reason to run a Shattering Assault Assassin over MS/DB in PvE, especially to maintain Save Yourselves due to your double strike rate in building up adrenaline compared to Shattering Assault.

If...we are talking about mantaining [save yourselves!] on the team I will agree about MS/DB doing better job with it especially when the actual MS/DB spam starts to go. For [save yourselves!] spamming Shattersin is not as good because the build doesnt spam atacks constantly, it does the job good anyway because daggers are good for building up addrenaline.

I also agree that unless you are going into an area were you would need a lot of enchantment removal like in Norn Areas, Post-sear Ascalon, Shiverpeaks, Maguuma Jungle, various areas with Mandragors in Elona, Asuran Areas with raptors etc. were you are coming against mobs with most annoying enchies out there you dont need to tke Shgatersin over MS/DB, but taking a Shattersin bars in the areas mentioned above helps a lot, making your life much easyer to go through them. Dont say that those areas are rare, you can see that they are not.

If you would need a bit of AoE damage as a Shattersin you can put Death Blossom into the bar and use it after all the enchies are removed or if there arent any of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

In PvE you will rarely need anything else other than MS/DB dual attack wise. However the most common builds that run two dual attacks swap Critcal Eye for Critical Strike which provides refreshment for your enchantments and critical hits and energy management on demand on top of doing critical damage. You can also run Golden Phoenix Strike and skip your lead for an extra utility slot. Blocking enchantments and stances aren't a major issue because you should be targeting casters in most areas anyway. However the main point here is that the MS/DB build is flexible and can be changed to suit just about any foe you face and still maintain a solid DPS rate compared to using Shattering Assault which in comparison has poor DPS.

Honestly, when you are spamming MS/Death Blossom - spam it and not anything else, any extra duals are just not needed and distract you from your main job, I dont even see any point in high costing [twisting fangs] to be honest unless we are talking about taking down some lonely mob a little bit faster I will consider using [death blossom] to chop hp off mobs around my target and killing them faster and faster or just killing them all at once (depends on luck and what heroes are in play) rather then killng one foes fast with twisting without harming others much.

As for [Golden Phoenix Strike] I DEFO prefer to use it, really great and cheap way to bash things with [death blossom] right away without a formal introduction with Lead>Offhand.

If we are talking about removing pesky stances using wild strike - no thanks, [wild blow] is a better choice to take if you know that you are going against such things, It can be used without interrupting the chain is the mob enters a block stance while you are in the progress of MS/DB spam already, it is also a 100% critical hit which proves to be very very usefull when your [critical agility] is about to end and is not recharged yet while you are enterring a fight against a mob, it can happen, and having something to autocrit and keep you enchie is good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

The builds I showed with Twisting Fangs in were just example builds to show how flexible MS/DB can be, it's main advantage is that you can keep up the double strike hit rate. Unless you need a second dual attack to serve a specific purpose there's no point in wasting utility for it. What skills you take with a MS/DB build depend largely on the area you are heading into, and with good forward planning you can use MS/DB on almost anything in the game.

Not sure, Shattersin is very usefull in a lot of areas.

[twisting fangs] is kind of meh...take [finish him!] if you need a finishing blow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

That depends on if you want utility or if you want to actually kill stuff.

No wai true, you can take [Assassin's Remedy] with MS/DB and still kill stuff noprobs.

And [save yourselves] is instant activation.

Super Igor · May 14, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Good discussion by the way, nice to see some people here can actually hold a civil debate.

Not PvXwiki for you Unreal.

Also, outninja'd by everyone.

petrorabbit · May 14, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

...snip
If we are talking about removing pesky stances using wild strike - no thanks, [wild blow] is a better choice to take if you know that you are going against such things, It can be used without interrupting the chain is the mob enters a block stance while you are in the progress of MS/DB spam already, it is also a 100% critical hit which proves to be very very usefull when your [critical agility] is about to end and is not recharged yet while you are enterring a fight against a mob, it can happen, and having something to autocrit and keep you enchie is good.

In my experience with [Wild Blow] and [Save Yourselves], I found the adrenaline loss can really throw a wrench in your SY cycle. Although there are ways to manage it, I wouldn't recommend it to someone learning the build.

Unreal Havoc · May 14, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

If you would need a bit of AoE damage as a Shattersin you can put Death Blossom into the bar and use it after all the enchies are removed or if there arent any of them.

Just wasting utility, how about just take both a Shattering Assault sin and a MS/DB spammer in the same party? That way you get the full extent of both builds extreme capabilities.

Quote:

Honestly, when you are spamming MS/Death Blossom - spam it and not anything else, any extra duals are just not needed and distract you from your main job, I dont even see any point in high costing [twisting fangs] to be honest unless we are talking about taking down some lonely mob a little bit faster I will consider using [death blossom] to chop hp off mobs around my target and killing them faster and faster or just killing them all at once (depends on luck and what heroes are in play) rather then killng one foes fast with twisting without harming others much.

Examples Igor, examples.

Quote:

As for [Golden Phoenix Strike] I DEFO prefer to use it, really great and cheap way to bash things with [death blossom] right away without a formal introduction with Lead>Offhand.

Agreed but then you also lose Deep Wound unless you take Impale or Twisting Fangs. Never underestimate the abilty to temporarily lower your targets health and healing percentage, not even in PvE.

Quote:

If we are talking about removing pesky stances using wild strike - no thanks, [wild blow] is a better choice to take if you know that you are going against such things, It can be used without interrupting the chain is the mob enters a block stance while you are in the progress of MS/DB spam already, it is also a 100% critical hit which proves to be very very usefull when your [critical agility] is about to end and is not recharged yet while you are enterring a fight against a mob, it can happen, and having something to autocrit and keep you enchie is good.

/Agree. Can't believe I forgot about this sweet skill actually. But its a pain to maintain Save Yourselves with due to it causing you to lose all adrenaline. Good if you're not maintaining Save Yourselves though.

Quote:

Not sure, Shattersin is very usefull in a lot of areas.

No one is saying its not useful.

Quote:

[twisting fangs] is kind of meh...take [finish him!] if you need a finishing blow.

Twisting Fangs = Dual Attack skill IE: Double Strike = energy management if you critical. Correct me if I'm wrong but MS/DB doesn't recharge Finsh Him either with it being a Shout.

Quote:

No wai true, you can take [Assassin's Remedy] with MS/DB and still kill stuff noprobs.

And [save yourselves] is instant activation.

I do believe these are already established? o.O

Unreal Havoc · May 14, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Think right now I'll just drop what I already said earlier in the thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

There is no right or wrong, it depends on who you go with, what they're running, and what you aim to achieve with your build.

Fitting words for the debate? No?

Super Igor · May 14, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Just wasting utility, how about just take both a Shattering Assault sin and a MS/DB spammer in the same party? That way you get the full extent of both builds extreme capabilities.

Would be fantastic in the areas I have mentioned Shattersin to be very usefull, but generally two MS/DB sins, one with stance removal another with [golden phoenix strike] for teh fastness of using [death blossom] and [twisting fangs] as an extra dual and killing power if you want would be much better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Agreed but then you also lose Deep Wound unless you take Impale or Twisting Fangs. Never underestimate the abilty to temporarily lower your targets health and healing percentage, not even in PvE.

Sometimes you dont really need dw.....things die very fast anyway and the more you atack your target, the less hp mobs around it have till...well everything dies.

Sometimes it is very fun to take hold of a mob and bash the target with highest hp like warrior or a boss till basically all around it and it too dies, dw would lower the health of that target and you wont be able to do the trick as good, but thats theorycrafting basically.

I rarely take dw (except for [finish him!]) because it wastes a slot and an action, actually this makes [finish him!] great to use because you can use it while in precess of using an atack skill, same goes for [you move like a dwarf!].

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

/Agree. Can't believe I forgot about this sweet skill actually. But its a pain to maintain Save Yourselves with due to it causing you to lose all adrenaline. Good if you're not maintaining Save Yourselves though.

I dont use [save yourselves!] all the time especially if i am going against mobs who use blockin stances a lot, I like wild blow.

If you have taken the shout though dont take wild, but my heroes usually do fine without the shout tbh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

No one is saying its not useful.

Mudkipz do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Twisting Fangs = Dual Attack skill IE: Double Strike = energy management if you critical. Correct me if I'm wrong but MS/DB doesn't recharge Finsh Him either with it being a Shout.

Not much energy mangement froma 10 energy skill, bad on blue bar still and not rly needed as things die fast anyway.

[Finish Him!] is good because you can use it in th moiddle of using an atack skill which is good, also it looks cool when you shout.

Unreal Havoc · May 14, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Not much energy mangement froma 10 energy skill, bad on blue bar still and not rly needed as things die fast anyway.

[Finish Him!] is good because you can use it in th moiddle of using an atack skill which is good, also it looks cool when you shout.

Skipped the rest because its all more just about opinion.

This however makes me lol, even from you Igor of all people.

You don't get any energy management from using a shout, but you have the chance to get 8-10 energy back from using Twisting Fangs (critical strikes 3 + critical eye 1 +zealous 1 x 2 from double striking) which can cover the cost of the skill. The shout is pointless because as already said it isn't renewed by Moebius Strike as it isn't an attack skill and you cannot get any energy whatsoever by achieveing a critical hit (or even landing a hit with zealous daggers) full stop. There is just no point running it on the bar over Twisting Fangs with those points in mind.

What I do like about it is unblockability seems it doesn't require landing a hit, but I'd rather land the hit with Twisting Fangs to be honest and be able to spam it as often as its available by recharging it with Moebius Strike. Would most likely function better on the Shattering Assault skill bar.

Super Igor · May 15, 2008, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Skipped the rest because its all more just about opinion.

This however makes me lol, even from you Igor of all people.

You don't get any energy management from using a shout, but you have the chance to get 8-10 energy back from using Twisting Fangs (critical strikes 3 + critical eye 1 +zealous 1 x 2 from double striking) which can cover the cost of the skill. The shout is pointless because as already said it isn't renewed by Moebius Strike as it isn't an attack skill and you cannot get any energy whatsoever by achieveing a critical hit (or even landing a hit with zealous daggers) full stop. There is just no point running it on the bar over Twisting Fangs with those points in mind.

I dont like twisting, yeah it is rechrged by moebius...can cover its cost bla bla bla, still, I would rather spam DB more often and have an extremely powerfull finishing blow skill to finish off foes.

I dont need any more energy management then I already have, I dont need my dw to replenish its own energy cost, I never have energy problems anyway, I dont want to sacrifice a chance to chop 90 damage off everything around me to apply dw....[finish him] can be used in the middle of doing something, its damage is armor ignoring and the activation is instant, so it is good, I will only need to use such skill a maximum of two times in battle anyway because most of the things get killed from aoe, minions, iv, putrid bile etc. [twisting fangs] is blockable too, it is not armor ignoring so damage you deal with it usually wont exceed 60....yeah. [finish him] is unblockable...instant...armor ignoring so it is very good to use if you need such things.

Unreal, seriously, you are underestimating the power of [finish him] it is an extremely powerfull skill. Dont bother with things like extra energy management if you have plenty of it anyway.

Im not telling you that [twisting fangs] is bad.....no.....but it can not be called highly superior to any other way to apply dw to things in PvE.

Generally dw is not a holy grail to have, spammable dw is not, it may help...but usually things die fast without it or you dont need to use it too often...it is simple as that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

What I do like about it is unblockability seems it doesn't require landing a hit, but I'd rather land the hit with Twisting Fangs to be honest and be able to spam it as often as its available by recharging it with Moebius Strike. Would most likely function better on the Shattering Assault skill bar.

About Shattering Assault, I am saying again that it is much....much helpfull in the areas that i have mentioned to you it is highly helpfull and can even stand between your party being wiped from the pressure some mobs can apply while being hard to kill because of the axcess of pretective enchies.

If you are such a fanbow of dw take [golden fang strike] in the shattersin bar to dw things after they are defenceless or just use it if you know the cant block.

You dont need to spam dw, you need to finish things off mostly, finish them off fastly, you dont need it as often though, sheer damage is anough in most areas.

Taking dw is like taking a Shattersin bar, it is not 100% needed, but it can prove very helpfull in certain areas.....

Bobby2 · May 15, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

...good show Igor.

To add to Unreal's remark about [skill]finish him[/skill] fitting better on a Shattersin bar: Yes.

Cracked Armour doesn't normally effect damage output to a large degree since bonus damage is armor-ignoring...

...except with [skill]shattering assault[/skill]. Suddenly, stuff like customizing and having a 15^X inscrip starts to matter (in a fit of madness even included [skill]shadowy burden[/skill] for lulz).

Considering the fact one can only bring 3 PvE skills, coupled with Unreal's points above, I doubt many people will spend a PvE slot on a Deep Wound if not for coolness alone.

petrorabbit · May 15, 2008, 02:38 PM // 14:38

^ Actually, customization doesn't affect SA's Damage. Since SA's damage is considered base, it will get more benefit from 15^X inscriptions adding slightly more damage. It would be nice if it was fixed to add customization damage too. But of course, pvp'ers will cry nerf.

Bobby2 · May 15, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

<--- pwnt

(still, customize!)

Super Igor · May 15, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

To add to Unreal's remark about [skill]finish him[/skill] fitting better on a Shattersin bar: Yes.

Were? Oo

I personally thought Unreal gave the skill an overall bashing.

Anyway, I still thing [finish him] is a powerful skill and can fit assassin bar no problem if you want, especially on a Shattersin though golden fang strike could be good for it too.

About the PvE skill slot I dont know, you can not have one if you put [twisting fangs] on the bar anyway, because there just wont be a free slot on the bar.

Cracked armor helps, dw is good, 80 armor ignoring damage is good. I like [finish him].

Generally there is a question of if it is worwhile to take dw in general? Can kill stuff without it no problem anyway.

Unreal Havoc · May 15, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

I personally thought Unreal gave the skill an overall bashing.

No, just my opinion about what would in general work better overall. The skill is a good one but not one that would see use on my MS/DB bar for reasons I have, and have yet to, outline.

Quote:

I dont like twisting, yeah it is rechrged by moebius...can cover its cost bla bla bla, still, I would rather spam DB more often and have an extremely powerfull finishing blow skill to finish off foes.

Yet you have a finishing blow that takes 15 seconds to recharge and is not covered by energy management from critical strikes or the recharge from Moebius Strike? It doesn't matter if you have energy management or not (which takes another slot) you could quite easily just take a skill that synergises with the rest of your bar and allows you to regain energy from so that you dont need that energy management as much.

Quote:

I dont need any more energy management then I already have, I dont need my dw to replenish its own energy cost, I never have energy problems anyway, I dont want to sacrifice a chance to chop 90 damage off everything around me to apply dw....[finish him] can be used in the middle of doing something, its damage is armor ignoring and the activation is instant, so it is good, I will only need to use such skill a maximum of two times in battle anyway because most of the things get killed from aoe, minions, iv, putrid bile etc. [twisting fangs] is blockable too, it is not armor ignoring so damage you deal with it usually wont exceed 60....yeah. [finish him] is unblockable...instant...armor ignoring so it is very good to use if you need such things.

Unreal, seriously, you are underestimating the power of [finish him] it is an extremely powerfull skill. Dont bother with things like extra energy management if you have plenty of it anyway.

Wrong, I know fully well the skills capabilites, but I'd much rather spam Deep Wound on multiple targets making the killing process much much quicker. Deep Wound is a huge chunk off your targets health that stays off (unless removed) and reduces the amount of healing the target recieves.

Quote:

Im not telling you that [twisting fangs] is bad.....no.....but it can not be called highly superior to any other way to apply dw to things in PvE.

Generally dw is not a holy grail to have, spammable dw is not, it may help...but usually things die fast without it or you dont need to use it too often...it is simple as that.

Yet you praise Finsh Him to the ground and run it on your bar? o.O Kind of contradictory there Igor.

Quote:

About Shattering Assault, I am saying again that it is much....much helpfull in the areas that i have mentioned to you it is highly helpfull and can even stand between your party being wiped from the pressure some mobs can apply while being hard to kill because of the axcess of pretective enchies.

Why are we still going on about this when we established this already?

Quote:

If you are such a fanbow of dw take [golden fang strike] in the shattersin bar to dw things after they are defenceless or just use it if you know the cant block.

No need to get rude or personal Igor over someones opinion. As for GFS on a Shattersin bar, well now you're taking away the whole point of taking a Shattersin, bypassing blocking enchantments and stances, not going to do that if you cant hit your dual. Better of making the whole bar unblockable including the Deep Wound.

For the record I run GFS on my MS/DB bar. It makes stuff explode and die, lots!

Quote:

You dont need to spam dw, you need to finish things off mostly, finish them off fastly, you dont need it as often though, sheer damage is anough in most areas.

Deep Wound does tremendous damage to a target and assists the party in taking down your enemies. It is a great way to quickly take down a targest health, and even better if used on a Fevered Dreams Sin for example to inflict Deep Wound on an entire mob.

Quote:

Taking dw is like taking a Shattersin bar, it is not 100% needed, but it can prove very helpfull in certain areas.....

Personally I find spamming Deep Wound proves helpful in all areas.

Quote:

Cracked armor helps, dw is good, 80 armor ignoring damage is good. I like [finish him].

Cracked armour is pointless against casters (which you should be targeting mainly with you lovely high DPS rate) because it doesn't reduce base armour level to less than 60 (correct me if I'm wrong). Even more so in areas where your faced with heavy caster mobs.

Finsh Him would generally imo be better suited to the Shattersin to maintain full unblockability with the Deep Wound (which is the whole point of taking the Shattersin), and give it a much needed damage boost on demand so that you don't have to pull off your whole chain with the Shattersin to get to Impale, or even a casters bar as they don't need to get into melee range with it to inflict Deep Wound. Take TF or GFS on the MS/DB sin dependant on the rest of your chain.

Lastly in regards to how many PvE slots you use, unless you need to take Sunspear Rebirth Signet you should still have a free slot after taking Critical Agility and Save Yourselves (both of which should be on a MS/DB bar imo). However I'm willing to bet you can probably find better PvE skills to put to use instead of wasting yor last PvE slot on Deep Wound that can be quite easily used in a different skill slot and that isn't recharged by Moebius Strike.

Bobby2 · May 15, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

after taking Critical Agility and Save Yourselves (both of which should be on a MS/DB bar imo)

YES! Someone agrees with me! /dance

Super Igor · May 15, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Yet you have a finishing blow that takes 15 seconds to recharge and is not covered by energy management from critical strikes or the recharge from Moebius Strike? It doesn't matter if you have energy management or not (which takes another slot) you could quite easily just take a skill that synergises with the rest of your bar and allows you to regain energy from so that you dont need that energy management as much.

You dont need to spam finishing blows, things die nearly at once or take some time to die so your finishing blow rehcrges anyway, energy management doesnt take up amn extra slot as you main attribut is already an energy management, i agree that [twisting fangs] has a better synergy with you bar but its for that bar, generally [finish him] is a more powerfull skill and is better choice for other templates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Wrong, I know fully well the skills capabilites, but I'd much rather spam Deep Wound on multiple targets making the killing process much much quicker. Deep Wound is a huge chunk off your targets health that stays off (unless removed) and reduces the amount of healing the target recieves.

You dont need to spam dw all the time, it helps but is not a complete must.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Yet you praise Finsh Him to the ground and run it on your bar? o.O Kind of contradictory there Igor.

Not praiseing it, rather defending it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOU KNOW WHO! ;)

No need to get rude or personal Igor over someones opinion. As for GFS on a Shattersin bar, well now you're taking away the whole point of taking a Shattersin, bypassing blocking enchantments and stances, not going to do that if you cant hit your dual. Better of making the whole bar unblockable including the Deep Wound.

For the record I run GFS on my MS/DB bar. It makes stuff explode and die, lots!

I said to use two offhands, taking gfs and wild, you strip enchies first, then apply dw, or apply it right away if there are none of the things that bock, they do it sometimes and it works, the combo is short anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by .......................

Personally I find spamming Deep Wound proves helpful in all areas.

Cracked armour is pointless against casters (which you should be targeting mainly with you lovely high DPS rate) because it doesn't reduce base armour level to less than 60 (correct me if I'm wrong). Even more so in areas where your faced with heavy caster mobs.

Finsh Him would generally imo be better suited to the Shattersin to maintain full unblockability with the Deep Wound (which is the whole point of taking the Shattersin), and give it a much needed damage boost on demand so that you don't have to pull off your whole chain with the Shattersin to get to Impale, or even a casters bar as they don't need to get into melee range with it to inflict Deep Wound. Take TF or GFS on the MS/DB sin dependant on the rest of your chain.

Cracked armor is used to nullify defensive sets in PvP.

In PvE mobs have high armor level, but itsa not the point, [finish him] if just another good way to apply dw, even for an assassin, this what i am talking about.

Oh and Havoc, its turns out the same as the oooooold argument we had about resurrect being worst res ingame (you were saying it was good

), just before i was running you to sanctum cay rememmber?